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10/27/2012 19 Comments

Why do so many people fear opposing ideas?

Election 2012

I CAN TALK to some of my friends and family about anything. Others want me to shut up if I say anything about politics. Why is that? Do they lack confidence in their beliefs or do they fear me?

Tweet No Evil

Okay, I get it. I'm different. I have never shied away from a good debate. I have even adopted a contrary position on occasion just because I was bored simply agreeing with everyone around me. When people who knew my attitudes and beliefs caught me playing devil's advocate, I excused myself as testing my own opinions.

I can't help but smile at the memory of the night when a friend tried to engage me in debate. Apparently I failed to rise to the bait he offered. I guess that I was distracted by my own thoughts and missed his verbal challenges. Finally, he looked me in the eye and asked what was wrong. Something had to be wrong with me to avoid a good debate.

Thus, I cannot judge others by my own behavior. Not everyone enjoys conflict as much as I. However, this still doesn't satisfy my curiosity. What is wrong with people who run from it?

We are about to make an important decision on November 6th. Doesn't everyone want to have the facts and make the best decision? How can they know for sure that they're making the best decision if they don't make a conscious effort to think about it, converse about it, debate it, argue it?

Conservatives talk with me. Tea Partiers will go toe to toe with me. Democrats have never been shy. But liberals? Progressives? No way.

Several important issues have come to light in recent days. You won't find them mentioned on the leading broadcast networks or in large city newspapers. They seem to be avoiding them. However, the blogosphere is alive with them. I'm only seeing one side of this news. I would love to talk with anyone who supports President Obama's reelection to get their side of the story. However, if I even mention these developments, they recoil in horror, accuse me of spreading malicious gossip, and threaten to “unfriend” me if I don't shut up and go away. What is their problem? What are they afraid of?

What are these issues?

Are we holding a filmmaker as a political pawn? It's evident that his terrible video, insulting to Muslims, was not responsible for the attack on the American embassy in Benghazi. It's equally evident that the President and members of his Administration knowingly lied, blaming the video for the attack. Was the President covering up his failures in managing foreign relations? Why is this filmmaker still behind bars?

Did the President knowingly order military assets to stand down, assets that might have repulsed the attacks on the American embassy in Benghazi? We now know that U.S. armed forces could have arrived well before the diplomats were murdered. Why would he deny them reinforcements?

Did the President abandon the White House while terrorists attacked the embassy in Benghazi to attend a political fund raiser?

Is the President actually responsible for bringing Osama Bin Laden to justice? Or, did Leon Panetta authorize the mission? There is evidence that the President is falsely claiming this as his accomplishment. Is it true?

Is the economy on the road to recovery? Or, is the Administration doctoring the numbers to create the illusion of recovery?

Has the President avoided meeting with his Council on Jobs while massive unemployment and under-employment persist?

Has the President avoided meeting with his Security Advisors while terrorists run rampant?

Did the President authorize the CIA to negotiate directly with Al Queda, and arm them to foment revolution in Middle Eastern countries?

Did the President's statements in the last debate honestly reflect his lack of understanding of military matters or was he simply employing “snark” for effect? He is supposed to be the Commander-in-Chief, isn't he?

All of these issues, and others, are being presented with highly credible evidence from highly credible sources. I'm sure there are opposing viewpoints, but the people I expect to present them, especially those who support President Obama assiduously, won't even discuss them. They attempt to distract me with specious attacks on Mitt Romney. They complain that George Bush is responsible for all the ills that face America. The President himself deflects blame on others. Whatever happened to the sign that Harry Truman used to keep in the Oval Office when he was President, “The Buck Stops Here”?

I don't need people who agree with me. I need my friends and family who support the President to challenge me, to show me, with credible evidence, the error of these assertions. Or, if they accept these charges as true, do they not care and support the President in spite of them? Maybe they think I shouldn't care either. Why won't they tell me?

Why won't they even talk to me?

19 Comments

Caleb Pirtle link

10/28/2012 01:08:59 am

Unfortunately, we live in a world of closed minds. People don't care what others think, and that's a shame. My thoughts are these: I may not agree with you, but I am fascinated to learn what you believe and why you believe it. For example, Stephen Woodfin and I are on opposite ends of the political spectrum. But we enjoy discussing politics and often discover we have a lot of common ground in our beliefs.

Jack Durish

10/28/2012 03:02:57 am

I have had friends in my life who I could disagree with on almost anything, but our friendships spanned whatever chasm separated us. Online "friends" don't seem to have that quality.

Jim Dougherty link

10/28/2012 05:17:35 am

Hi Jack,

Great premise for a post! I thought a little bit about the lack of discourse when a few people I know asked their Facebook friends to unfriend them if they didn't agree with their viewpoints on social issues.

After watching the Sunday political shows, I think that many of the talking points and political positions are posed to polarize people. I don't claim a political affiliation, but I do share my opposition to war and killing civilians for the policies of their government. This puts me at odds with either political party.

When the U.S. was invading Iraq, I recall a conversation where I shared my opposition and a friend told me that "all the Iraqis understand is violence." It impacted me, because some wonk's talking points were keeping us from having a conversation about the reasons for the invasion and the toll on the people.

I think that the points that you're asking about may be valid to draw some small differentiation between Obama and Romney, but the broad assertion that Obama intentionally isn't improving the economy or utilizing his military assets isn't logical. I don't expect that either candidate has the intention to do harm. With their unprecedented $1 billion in contributions, I don't think either candidate has the capability to do great help to people, either.

My wish for the political discourse is that it wouldn't be so divisive, and it seems to me that you have a good attitude about stating your opinion and respecting other people's, Jack. Wish there were more like you!

Jack Durish

10/28/2012 06:21:10 am

Thank you for your thoughtful response. My God, if we keep this up, the IDTP (Internet Discussion Thread Police) will jail us both. How dare we be reasonable.

Claude Nougat link

10/28/2012 06:42:44 am

So glad to hear everyone is so reasonable on this thread! The IDTP could jail me too: I can't stand polarization and divisive discourse!

Jack Durish

10/28/2012 06:57:16 am

I thrive on it. However, I object to those who aren't courteous enough to listen to me as well as I listen to them.

bill husztek link

10/28/2012 10:04:57 am

Might as well pound dirt.

A friend, who is a client, stopped by to borrow a generator to face the passing hurricane. If you listen to the purveyors of weather we are on the verge of a biblical disaster. Frogs will be falling from the sky kind of weather.
My wife called from Chicago where she's working, to tell me that I needed to worry about lowering the kayaks to the ground from where they currently hang in storage because the TV people say; "frogs are gonna fall." Oh, well.

Anyway my friend made a comment that Obama is going to go after the "rich" he looked pointedly at me, and give the poor working man, he looked down at his feet, a fair break. "its not fair that the rich don't pay their fair share."

After I'd listened patiently, I went through the process that I had used to get "rich". I earned my salary as a younger man, paid my taxes on it, and put away a portion of it in a retirement account.

I asked him if he understood I had paid full freight taxes on that saved money before I got it and lived on the remainder after I'd banked it. And I asked him if he understood I had paid full freight taxes on the money I didn't save. When I was certain he understood that I had paid the taxes on every dollar I had earned, just like he does, I then tried to deal with the unfairness question.

Immediately I began to say that now I was retired and starting to take out some of those dollars, he said, "and you should pay taxes on it just like I do! You are rich, and you should pay your fair share!"

I walked him back through it. And each time when it came time for me to harvest my savings he immediately said, "you need to pay your fair share. And that's what Obama will do! Go after people who aren't paying their fair share. And beside that, what about that fellow who wants to outlaw abortion"

Both of us recognized we weren't changing minds. As he was leaving he said: "at least I can talk to you, because you are a Republican, and not one of those Tea Party People if you were, I wouldn't even be able to talk to you, they are so radical."

He took my generator which many years ago I had shopped for and used some of those taxed dollars to purchase, and he drove out into the storm which is supposed to be only surpassed by the Noah event.

I had changed no opinions, and he couldn't explain his own.

The apparent difference between rich and poor seems to be; one is dumb enough to save money and buy a generator, and do maintenance on it, which sits idle year in and out; the other is smart enough to call up get the other guy "a rich guy" to bring it out, dust it off and test run it, fill it with gas then show the poor guy how it works so he the poor fellow can then borrow it.

It would be considered racist to mention that my friend's ancestors were from a southern hemisphere continent.

But I'm not. Just bemused.

Thanks,
Bill

Mary Kathryn Johnson link

10/30/2012 06:44:21 am

Bill ~
You filled that generator with the perfect fuel...entitlement fuel, that is! Your "give me some of yours instead of making me work for my own" client/friend apparently didn't listen to his immigrant ancestors who came to this country with the hope that their hard work could allow them to move beyond their home country's birth destiny.

I am constantly amused by the masses pounding their chests and blindly following an elitist leader promising to give them what they want free of charge.

Jack ~
I can't speak to your specific bullet points regarding what Obama did or didn't do, but I can say I have seen enough evidence in actual policy and actions to prove to me that the current president is anti-entrepreneur, and against capitalism. I am trying to save some of my post-tax dollars for my own retirement and future estate, but too much of my money is going to entitle every government employee to retire while paying less than 25% into their own retirement package!

I do make you a promise, however...I will vote with all of my body, not just my uterus, which would never consider an abortion anyway...it's not the fetus' fault if I get raped, so why should I kill it?!

I LOVE a good debate, but most people would rather whisper and gossip behind closed doors than have an honest, respectful face-to-face discussion. Do they lack confidence? Are they too immature to converse without reducing to name-calling, because they watch too many reality shows?

Okay, I'm done...

Jack Durish

10/28/2012 10:46:56 am

You should really start blogging. It's great practice for your writing, and it helps get things off your chest. Don't worry about offending anyone. They don't have to read it if they don't like it.

Patti Salzwedel

10/29/2012 07:08:43 pm

Totally have loved reading these interesting thoughts. Well done.

Jack Durish

10/30/2012 02:11:38 am

Thank you. Glad you could make it by. Hope to see you again.

Jack Durish

10/30/2012 07:07:17 am

Doesn't it feel good to get it off of your chest? However, we need to replace arguing and debating with something more effective. We need to begin persuading people that the present course, regardless of who wins the current elections, is headed for utter failure. I've decided to tackle this task after the election. Maybe people will be more inclined to discuss issues rationally without the pressures of the election. Maybe they won't be as offended if the discussion doesn't include attacks on their favorite "celebrities".

Bill Husztek

10/30/2012 09:47:09 am

I just was reviewing the blogle chain.

The basic premise is wrong.
"fear opposing ideas."

And Jack, because of that, it doesn't matter when you approach these people. Nor whether you threaten their popular leader or not.

My friend-client was perfectly okay with the idea that I paid taxes on the money I earned, and he understood that those taxes covered the money I had saved.

His problem was he couldn't make the intellectual leap from my saving those dollars to my then starting to spend those same saved and previously taxed dollars.

At that junction, for him, they became "rich dollars." Thus is wasn't fair for me not to pay tax on them again.

Why did he think this way?
Because it was the easy way. It required no change in the way his thinking was wired.

Let me try this.
When I was a kid, my Dad was trying to teach me simple math and the effect of -1 from nothing or 0.
Let me tell you that at the time he was a navigator in the U.S. Air Force who had served in Africa, England, and Europe during WWII. So, he was a fairly well accomplished mathematician teaching his son simple math.

Our conversation was as follows.
Q.If I have 2 and I subtract 1 how much is left?
A.1.
Q.If I have 1 and subtract 1 how much is left?
A.0.
Good.
Q.Now if I have 0 and I subtract 1 how much do I have?
A.-1.
No! You can't subtract 1 from nothing and get something, not even -1!

Well we went around and around that topic that night as he tried various equations which were all designed to bring me to an understanding that for the purposes of basic math there was nothing less than 0.
He finally wore me down to the understanding that for that simple math, you can't subtract something from nothing and get anything but nothing.
I still failed the test on subtracting from zero. It is how I was wired. And when the threat was over, I reverted because it was easy.

Later in High School I learned other forms of math where -1 was perfectly valid as an answer. And in financial questions I soared, really appreciating the effects of a negative balance on numbers.

But, thankfully for both of us that night I wasn't that prescient or I might not have survived it. As it was I shed a lot of tears as he almost tore his hair out trying to get me to grasp the simple concept.

But why my problem? Because I couldn't make the mental leap required. It was just too hard for me to do then.

Sadly, for the majority of people that mental barrier is too formidable for them to get past it.

Religion? Most of us are practitioners of our parents' faith. Don't argue it, accept it.
Car Brand we Drive? My Daddy drove a Ford, I drive a Ford. No point in arguing it, accept it.
Politics? My Daddy was a Democrat, I'm a Democrat. Why even dream that you can change them?
Finances investments? I let my banker or broker worry about that? If you even suggest that they take an interest in evaluating how well they are or aren't doing, they excuse themselves.
Retirement? The Government will handle it.

And this last has metasticized.
Retirement, Welfare, Health Care, Stem Cell research, Birth Control. Our friends no longer are interested in the subject or the debate.

You want a spirited conversation, ask about their cell phone plan, or their cable plan or their credit card interest. Or who Lindsy Lowhan is doing.

But for the rest of it.
Its too hard to think about.
Or as the man said in the film Inherit the Wind, "I don't think about things I don't think about."

Thanks,
Bill
Politicians use himitsus to create ambiguous problems, which of themselves can never be solved, as clear and imminent dangers which only they can save us from if we will only trust them.

Thad

10/31/2012 12:13:16 am

Come on. You throw right-wing conspiratorial trash out there (e.g., Is the economy on the road to recovery? Or, is the Administration doctoring the numbers to create the illusion of recovery?) and then pretend you want to have an honest debate? Disingenuous and lame.

Jack Durish

10/31/2012 03:08:10 am

You simply attack the person asking the question rather than attacking the issue. Precisely what I complain of in my opening comments. All of the questions I asked are founded in reality. They rise well above "conspiratorial trash." Your response is typical of those I am attempting to circumvent to arrive at honest debate.

Mary Kathryn Johnson link

10/31/2012 04:57:07 am

Republicans probably had the same knee-jerk emotional reaction, Thad when some "Left-Wing Journalists" claimed that Nixon was paranoid and out to get Democrats. Please come to the discussion with logic and facts, rather than emotions and name calling. Didn't your mother ever tell you that you get more with honey than vinegar?

Arlee Bird link

10/31/2012 05:48:01 am

I am so with you on this issue of avoiding discussion of important issues. I've been posting some of the same sort of thing on my blog, albeit with less specificity, and already seem to be scaring away readers.

I like the idea of reasoning things out and intelligently questioning concepts that don't seem quite right to me and putting out my ideas to see what holes other can punch in them. That has been part of my blog intent from the start although I frequently back down from this to avoid upsetting my followers.

I am going to continue to toss out ideas to my readers to see if I can bounce them off of their brains. I may lose a few followers in the process, but the ones I keep will be the gold standard of blog readership as far as I'm concerned. Enough of this trivial social media crap!

As far as the current political climate, I've found the whole Obama emergence to be rather fishy from the start. There are so many questions and so much fodder for the conspiracy theorists that I suspect many of the conspiracies to be true and I think there is a lot more that we still don't know, but many of us suspect.

I'm not thrilled with either of the mainstream candidates this time around and haven't been for the past couple of elections, but one of the biggest problems in our country is that the majority of the populace doesn't think about much that is important and would prefer to let the media and politicians do the thinking for them. The masses are asking for trouble by not exploring the questions and reasoning out the answers. Our country is going to get what we deserve.

Lee

Jack Durish

10/31/2012 09:17:15 am

I only began posting specifically about the approaching election a few weeks ago. In that time the average number of visitors to my website/weblog has risen from about 900/day to about 1200/day. I obviously didn't scare Thad away (Good for you Thad) even though he only ducked into to toss out an ad hominem attack, which tends to make me believe that we may be seeing the rise of the conservative. Twice as many people self-identify as conservative as opposed to liberals. This election may be a blow out after all.

bill1940 link

10/31/2012 07:01:27 am

Thad,
you are right.
The economy is in recovery. And it is in decline.

It is the best of times, it is the worst of times.

Let us assume, that everything is okay in the economy. That we just need to relax, that things will get better in time.

The fact is they will eventually.

For a person like myself, the "Frankenstorm" ballihooed by the new media this weekend was an interesting event it rained a lot, and the wind knocked down some trees.
Not the end of my world.

After all, I had more than one generator because I am "rich" and I could always call on my yard people to take care of things if they were beyond my control for the same reason.
Thus my friend and client was able to know he could come to me and borrow my back up unit.

And I too was prepared for the economy's melt down.

Either from George Bush's inept governance or Barak Obama's, blessings be upon him, stellar taking on all the hard questions and resolving them. His picking up the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts was only right, because sooner or later we will have peace.
The way I did, was first, as a kid I avoided impregnating every woman (we used to call them girls) I came into contact with. So neither they or I had any long term mouths to suck us of our ability to get ahead and save.
Until I or we were ready for that. Thankfully we didn't have someone in the Government offering us all the necessary equipment to follow this. We had our own will power, and if we wanted more, our own money to go to the drugstore on our own. (Reminds me of a really funny joke.)

Instead I finished the free schooling using the public education system offered to everyone.

Then I signed up with the military to get the schooling benefits I would receive if I served the Nation for four years and avoided dying in the process. (Some of my friends did, in Vietnam.)

I didn't feel I needed the paternal protection and guidance of my whole life by staying in the military and I got out with an honorable discharge to deal with the world on my own terms.

I taught school for years, at every level including college level, so with service in the military and teaching, I feel I have more than paid my debt to the system and so I finally struck out on my own.

I opened my own business, then another and another. Each time I was moderately successful and left them in good order. Each hired other people, paid taxes and contributed to the society. Not one of them was built by anyone in the Government, nor my neighbors, certainly not any politician, or you.

During the time I ran those businesses working long days, seven days a week, I still managed to serve as a unpaid volunteer on city, state and federal committees to help resolve community concerns.

Further, I took some of my spare time, when most sensible folks are watching TV, to volunteer to become an EMT and serve as such in several Emergency Rooms to help others.

When I was working for a living, I did something most folks don't do.
I prepared for my own retirement by setting up savings and IRA accounts.

Each month instead of "tithing" into the cable or satellite TV signal service, I put that money into my retirement. For those services, I put up a TV antenna from Radio Shack which cost me less than one month's cable or satellite service fees.

Next I didn't smoke.
Each month instead of buying tobacco products, I put my money into a tobacco farm which I had purchased with savings and a bank mortgage that I repaid in twenty years of doing without.

I didn't buy a car every three years, or whenever I got tired of the old one. I learned to do the routine maintenance myself. Each time I changed the oil myself I got my hands dirty, and saved $40.00 which went into my retirement accounts.

And,
I cut up all the credit cards which people sent me except for two from credit unions where I was saving my money.
I didn't buy stuff on credit, and then finance it with the credit card. The money I didn't waste in those fees, . . . went into my savings accounts.

With the money I wasn't burning up, drinking down, eating, or subsidizing the local purveyors of mass entertainment, mobil phones and all the other things I could have wasted it on, I invested in Real Estate, or the stock market or my savings.

And those investments made money.

Now, with all the money I didn't waste, which has accumulated to more than I can reasonably spend in the balance of my life, I qualify as "rich" per (the new dare I say, "progressive" definition of the word) you use?

And you folks, like my friend-client, come around to look at what I have accumulated and built with my own husbandry of what I paid for with labor and parsimony and tell me that;
"Bill, you didn't earn that, you didn't build that, we did."
"You are rich as Croesus, so lend me one of your generators."

Or, you want to take it all away from me and give it to someone who you decide is really needy and "disadvantaged." because they never had my opportunities.

And you speak to me of conspira

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Blogging: Commentary on the art and science of maintaining a successful website/weblog
Cuba: History of the island and its people gathered while writing my novel, Hatuey's Ghost
Good Reads: Book reviews and interviews with current authors
Infantry School: A journal of my experiences in Basic Combat Training, Advanced Infantry Training, and Infantry Officer Candidate School in preparation to going to war in Vietnam.
Oh-dark-thirty: Random thoughts that wake me up in the middle of the night
Opinion: I am not a member of any organized (or disorganized) political party. My views tend to be libertarian.
Sea Scouts: A journal of my experiences as man and boy with this branch of Boy Scouting (probably not what you'd expect)
Today's Chuckle: Comics and jokes "borrowed" from other sources with links and thanks to the owners of the originals

Vietnam: A journal of my experiences and observations of the Vietnam War while assigned to the 9th Infantry Division, 1967 to 1968
Writing: Personal observations on the craft of writing and the current condition of the publishing industry

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Why do so many people fear opposing ideas?

Election 2012

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